Comments on: Fedora Core 6 http://www.sharms.org/blog/2006/11/fedora-core-6/ Life, Linux and Technology Thu, 26 Jan 2012 02:40:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: nixternal http://www.sharms.org/blog/2006/11/fedora-core-6/comment-page-1/#comment-57 nixternal Fri, 10 Nov 2006 04:20:09 +0000 http://www.sharms.org/blog/?p=31#comment-57 John, In the server market I will give it to Red Hat hands down, but in the desktop market, I wouldn't even consider it for my newbie users who I am constantly converting from Windows to Ubuntu. With Ubuntu, they can do the install themselves. With Red Hat, Fedora Core in this instance, I have had problems with hardware that was non-free. How professional would it be of me to tell my client, hey, this operating system I am trying to get you to use because it isn't evil, doesn't like your evil hardware, so now we need to go and un-evil (bushism right there!) they system and try and locate the hardware. My client will look at me and more than likely demand Windows 98 be put back on his system. I want the Free Hardware and Free Software world so bad, but we have to be honest with ourselves, in the desktop market, Free Software isn't ready. That is why Ubuntu simply provides the non-free solution because it is better than any available free solution. Now when a free solution comes around, then Ubuntu will switch to it if it's better. Ubuntu supports free software, but it also supports a users freedom to choose. To me, the user's freedom to do as he/she wishes is far more important to me. Because if they aren't happy, then they will just go back to Windows or Mac, which we are trying to prevent. I think it is unfair to go after Ubuntu just because they provide a user the freedom to choose what is best for them. It is great for the Linux community as well, because many Ubuntu users will become better Linux users and some day will end up switching to other distributions, but staying in the Linux community, and possibly supporting or developing free software and hardware. We need to stop denying the fact that free software and free hardware isn't ready for mainstream, and I am sure that RMS doesn't want to go mainstream either, seeing as he is about as eclectic as one could be. People are just way to spoiled to make them change their ways, a majority of Windows users have been so now for 10 years or more, and the are stuck in their Windows ways. If installing a non-free solution is their only solution for happiness, then let it be, and lets work towards creating a free solution that can accurately replace these non-free solutions. The reason Red Hat is wonderful in a server environment, is because companies like IBM, HP, and Dell have worked closely to create free hardware. Why? Because Linux rules the server market. Maybe once they see that Linux is a serious player in the desktop world, more and more free hardware will come out of it, until then, all we have is a philosophy, a movement, and a handful of serious free hacker hippies trying to push something below the standards that a majority of computer users (not enthusiasts or hacker) are used to. John,
In the server market I will give it to Red Hat hands down, but in the desktop market, I wouldn’t even consider it for my newbie users who I am constantly converting from Windows to Ubuntu. With Ubuntu, they can do the install themselves. With Red Hat, Fedora Core in this instance, I have had problems with hardware that was non-free. How professional would it be of me to tell my client, hey, this operating system I am trying to get you to use because it isn’t evil, doesn’t like your evil hardware, so now we need to go and un-evil (bushism right there!) they system and try and locate the hardware. My client will look at me and more than likely demand Windows 98 be put back on his system. I want the Free Hardware and Free Software world so bad, but we have to be honest with ourselves, in the desktop market, Free Software isn’t ready. That is why Ubuntu simply provides the non-free solution because it is better than any available free solution. Now when a free solution comes around, then Ubuntu will switch to it if it’s better. Ubuntu supports free software, but it also supports a users freedom to choose. To me, the user’s freedom to do as he/she wishes is far more important to me. Because if they aren’t happy, then they will just go back to Windows or Mac, which we are trying to prevent. I think it is unfair to go after Ubuntu just because they provide a user the freedom to choose what is best for them. It is great for the Linux community as well, because many Ubuntu users will become better Linux users and some day will end up switching to other distributions, but staying in the Linux community, and possibly supporting or developing free software and hardware. We need to stop denying the fact that free software and free hardware isn’t ready for mainstream, and I am sure that RMS doesn’t want to go mainstream either, seeing as he is about as eclectic as one could be. People are just way to spoiled to make them change their ways, a majority of Windows users have been so now for 10 years or more, and the are stuck in their Windows ways. If installing a non-free solution is their only solution for happiness, then let it be, and lets work towards creating a free solution that can accurately replace these non-free solutions. The reason Red Hat is wonderful in a server environment, is because companies like IBM, HP, and Dell have worked closely to create free hardware. Why? Because Linux rules the server market. Maybe once they see that Linux is a serious player in the desktop world, more and more free hardware will come out of it, until then, all we have is a philosophy, a movement, and a handful of serious free hacker hippies trying to push something below the standards that a majority of computer users (not enthusiasts or hacker) are used to.

]]> By: john http://www.sharms.org/blog/2006/11/fedora-core-6/comment-page-1/#comment-58 john Fri, 10 Nov 2006 01:31:28 +0000 http://www.sharms.org/blog/?p=31#comment-58 "And that also leads into my next stuff. I am a business person, which is bad for trying to withhold a Free Software movement" Not true at all. Just look at Red Hat and their efforts at Fedora which is a completely Free software distribution. Even Red Hat Enterprise Linux as a commercial product only includes Free (as in Freedom) software. Ubuntu is going in for short term benefits and as a marketing ploy telling people that they support Free software. “And that also leads into my next stuff. I am a business person, which is bad for trying to withhold a Free Software movement”

Not true at all. Just look at Red Hat and their efforts at Fedora which is a completely Free software distribution. Even Red Hat Enterprise Linux as a commercial product only includes Free (as in Freedom) software. Ubuntu is going in for short term benefits and as a marketing ploy telling people that they support Free software.

]]> By: nixternal http://www.sharms.org/blog/2006/11/fedora-core-6/comment-page-1/#comment-59 nixternal Thu, 09 Nov 2006 23:41:15 +0000 http://www.sharms.org/blog/?p=31#comment-59 John, You are right, I shouldn't have bought the hardware I did. The reason I did buy the hardware I did, is because it is, or was at the time, considered the best for a hardcore machine. You are right, I can use one of those You Tube players, that requires me to search for the movie, download it, then open up the player, and watch it. By the way, anyone gotten the video to stay in sync with the audio yet? Those players remind me old Godzilla movies, the lips move and then the sound comes in later. But hey, if I don't like it, I can fix it, I totally understand that and love that about it. The WiFi stuff I have a problem with, as the so-called "Free" WiFi solutions are currently not the top of the line. I'm sorry, if I purchase something, I tend to buy something that will last, and work (especially at my bs uni). The open software comment was a bit of a mistake on my part. But I kind of meant applications that aren't all that open. Which will lead to a new argument for me. I have paid for many free software deals, and I have donated as well to the FSF as well. I have currently switched to a student payment plan as thats all I can afford while going back to school full time. But I support the movement, but I also see its flaws that many people tend to overlook for some reason. And that also leads into my next stuff. I am a business person, which is bad for trying to withhold a Free Software movement. Businesses need it to work OOTB w/o many headaches if possible. We are living in a "Microsoft" society and it sucks, but we can't overlook that MS has done a lot of good for the IT world, but it has spoiled people, which makes it hard for them to accept FSF. Free software movement rocks, but everyone needs to recognize it isn't for everyone. I have the freedom to do pretty much anything with my Linux system right now (Kubuntu), I have Flash 9, Java, Orinoco WiFi card (laptop), and one or two of my machines has NVidia cards. I think we need to go after the hardware companies then we do the software people. If we have nothing but Free Hardware, then there wouldn't be anything but Free Software to go with it. Today, I read as much as I could to see the good with FSF/GNU and the bad with OSI. Marketing wise, OSI has their act together, because they want to play nice with everyone, FSF/GNU has a little bit of a different standpoint. I have more learning to do, and more preaching to do, as I want FSF to succeed, but it is hard when I enjoy some of the aspects of the OSI as well. Thanks John, as your comments have made me look back on definitions and try and figure out just what is good and what is evil. Right now it is all evil, as I am seeing more politics and separation than anything else. John,
You are right, I shouldn’t have bought the hardware I did. The reason I did buy the hardware I did, is because it is, or was at the time, considered the best for a hardcore machine.
You are right, I can use one of those You Tube players, that requires me to search for the movie, download it, then open up the player, and watch it. By the way, anyone gotten the video to stay in sync with the audio yet? Those players remind me old Godzilla movies, the lips move and then the sound comes in later. But hey, if I don’t like it, I can fix it, I totally understand that and love that about it.
The WiFi stuff I have a problem with, as the so-called “Free” WiFi solutions are currently not the top of the line. I’m sorry, if I purchase something, I tend to buy something that will last, and work (especially at my bs uni).
The open software comment was a bit of a mistake on my part. But I kind of meant applications that aren’t all that open. Which will lead to a new argument for me.
I have paid for many free software deals, and I have donated as well to the FSF as well. I have currently switched to a student payment plan as thats all I can afford while going back to school full time. But I support the movement, but I also see its flaws that many people tend to overlook for some reason.
And that also leads into my next stuff. I am a business person, which is bad for trying to withhold a Free Software movement. Businesses need it to work OOTB w/o many headaches if possible. We are living in a “Microsoft” society and it sucks, but we can’t overlook that MS has done a lot of good for the IT world, but it has spoiled people, which makes it hard for them to accept FSF. Free software movement rocks, but everyone needs to recognize it isn’t for everyone. I have the freedom to do pretty much anything with my Linux system right now (Kubuntu), I have Flash 9, Java, Orinoco WiFi card (laptop), and one or two of my machines has NVidia cards. I think we need to go after the hardware companies then we do the software people. If we have nothing but Free Hardware, then there wouldn’t be anything but Free Software to go with it.
Today, I read as much as I could to see the good with FSF/GNU and the bad with OSI. Marketing wise, OSI has their act together, because they want to play nice with everyone, FSF/GNU has a little bit of a different standpoint. I have more learning to do, and more preaching to do, as I want FSF to succeed, but it is hard when I enjoy some of the aspects of the OSI as well. Thanks John, as your comments have made me look back on definitions and try and figure out just what is good and what is evil. Right now it is all evil, as I am seeing more politics and separation than anything else.

]]> By: john http://www.sharms.org/blog/2006/11/fedora-core-6/comment-page-1/#comment-60 john Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:48:35 +0000 http://www.sharms.org/blog/?p=31#comment-60 "John, I need the money to switch to Free Hardware." If hardware was Free you wouldnt require money ;-) I assume you mean open hardware which you should have brought instead of being restricted by proprietary drivers. "The Freedom to watch You Tube goes right down the drain. The Freedom to use a majority of the WiFi cards goes right down the drain" There is the ability to download youtube movies in free formats. Search for them and use them. There are large number of wifi systems that is supported using Free software. Buy one of them instead. "Until Free Software can do everything that Open software can, it will continue to be prehistoric" There is no such thing as open software. Flash is not open in any means. Free software is used by millions. If you call it prehistoric, you are completely mistaken. There would no Ubuntu without Free software. "If I have to pay for Free software, then so be it, I will. I think every person who works on Free software deserves a monetary kickback." Sure, nobody is against paying for software that allows you the freedoms necessary. How many have you donated towards? “John, I need the money to switch to Free Hardware.”

If hardware was Free you wouldnt require money ;-) I assume you mean open hardware which you should have brought instead of being restricted by proprietary drivers.

“The Freedom to watch You Tube goes right down the drain. The Freedom to use a majority of the WiFi cards goes right down the drain”

There is the ability to download youtube movies in free formats. Search for them and use them. There are large number of wifi systems that is supported using Free software. Buy one of them instead.

“Until Free Software can do everything that Open software can, it will continue to be prehistoric”

There is no such thing as open software. Flash is not open in any means. Free software is used by millions. If you call it prehistoric, you are completely mistaken. There would no Ubuntu without Free software.

“If I have to pay for Free software, then so be it, I will. I think every person who works on Free software deserves a monetary kickback.”

Sure, nobody is against paying for software that allows you the freedoms necessary. How many have you donated towards?

]]> By: yglodt http://www.sharms.org/blog/2006/11/fedora-core-6/comment-page-1/#comment-61 yglodt Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:37:46 +0000 http://www.sharms.org/blog/?p=31#comment-61 Credit goes to fedora for building their distro with glibc 2.5, and the dt_gnu_hash option which makes OOo warmstart in 1 sec. one my laptop. In Edgy it still takes 3 sec. IIRC Feisty will get these optimizations as well. Can't wait for them! :-) Credit goes to fedora for building their
distro with glibc 2.5, and the dt_gnu_hash
option which makes OOo warmstart in 1 sec.
one my laptop. In Edgy it still takes 3 sec.

IIRC Feisty will get these optimizations
as well. Can’t wait for them! :-)

]]> By: nixternal http://www.sharms.org/blog/2006/11/fedora-core-6/comment-page-1/#comment-62 nixternal Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:41:40 +0000 http://www.sharms.org/blog/?p=31#comment-62 John, I need the money to switch to Free Hardware. Once I have that, then I can successfully use the Free Software. Until then, I tend to not preach the Free Software 100%, because 90% of the time, for someone to switch to Free Software they tend to loose a couple of Freedoms. The Freedom to watch You Tube goes right down the drain. The Freedom to use a majority of the WiFi cards goes right down the drain. So in a way, Free Software isn't so Free right now, and I wish it was. Until Free Software can do everything that Open software can, it will continue to be prehistoric. Free software philosophy is great, it just don't work 100% at this current time. If I have to pay for Free software, then so be it, I will. I think every person who works on Free software deserves a monetary kickback. John, I need the money to switch to Free Hardware. Once I have that, then I can successfully use the Free Software. Until then, I tend to not preach the Free Software 100%, because 90% of the time, for someone to switch to Free Software they tend to loose a couple of Freedoms. The Freedom to watch You Tube goes right down the drain. The Freedom to use a majority of the WiFi cards goes right down the drain. So in a way, Free Software isn’t so Free right now, and I wish it was. Until Free Software can do everything that Open software can, it will continue to be prehistoric. Free software philosophy is great, it just don’t work 100% at this current time. If I have to pay for Free software, then so be it, I will. I think every person who works on Free software deserves a monetary kickback.

]]> By: Knut Jorgen http://www.sharms.org/blog/2006/11/fedora-core-6/comment-page-1/#comment-63 Knut Jorgen Thu, 09 Nov 2006 10:10:16 +0000 http://www.sharms.org/blog/?p=31#comment-63 I hope you take the time to put these problems into Fedora bugzilla: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/ Thanks in advance! I hope you take the time to put these problems into Fedora bugzilla:

http://bugzilla.redhat.com/

Thanks in advance!

]]> By: john http://www.sharms.org/blog/2006/11/fedora-core-6/comment-page-1/#comment-64 john Thu, 09 Nov 2006 06:32:17 +0000 http://www.sharms.org/blog/?p=31#comment-64 <i>I am open to switching to everything free, just as soon as someone sends me money to do so. </i> Such kind of attitude reflects wanting everything as gratis instead of looking at and understanding the principle behind supporting Free software (that doesnt mean just gratis software) instead of ridiculing people who do. <i>And I have no problem paying for a product I use </i> Free software is about freedom. Not price. I am open to switching to everything free, just as soon as someone sends me money to do so.

Such kind of attitude reflects wanting everything as gratis instead of looking at and understanding the principle behind supporting Free software (that doesnt mean just gratis software) instead of ridiculing people who do.

And I have no problem paying for a product I use

Free software is about freedom. Not price.

]]> By: nixternal http://www.sharms.org/blog/2006/11/fedora-core-6/comment-page-1/#comment-65 nixternal Thu, 09 Nov 2006 06:20:33 +0000 http://www.sharms.org/blog/?p=31#comment-65 Dude, return your laptop already, it has proprietary hardware. What is wrong with you buying a laptop that doesn't work with Free Software? YOu think this is Burger King, you can have it your way? Microsoft works with everything, thats why they tend to lead the desktop market. I mean come on, you thought you were actually going to get away with using your computer for something more than a terminal or Emacs? OK, I will stop the sarcasm there. I support free software and I want to support it, but more and more hardware, which I don't have control of if my company purchases it, is proprietary and not open. I hate this just as much as the next person, and yes everything should be open, and we should work for it. But we need to realise that not everyone has the access to hardware that is open, and sometimes we tend to purchase stuff due to it being cheap and in our budgets. I have an ATI card, feel free to hate me, but when I bought it, I was a gamer on Windows, and plus you can't deny that ATI>NVidia when it comes to GPUs. So in the mean time, while there are only a hand full of open hardware vendors, there are some people who need the closed source/proprietary drivers, especially for wifi (which my Orinoco card doesn't work either with FC6 OOTB). I am open to switching to everything free, just as soon as someone sends me money to do so. This whole free software, opensource software, linux distro this and that is starting to sound a lot like politics, and if anyone watches TV, we see how that goes ;) Good write up Steve! Dude, return your laptop already, it has proprietary hardware. What is wrong with you buying a laptop that doesn’t work with Free Software? YOu think this is Burger King, you can have it your way? Microsoft works with everything, thats why they tend to lead the desktop market. I mean come on, you thought you were actually going to get away with using your computer for something more than a terminal or Emacs?

OK, I will stop the sarcasm there. I support free software and I want to support it, but more and more hardware, which I don’t have control of if my company purchases it, is proprietary and not open. I hate this just as much as the next person, and yes everything should be open, and we should work for it. But we need to realise that not everyone has the access to hardware that is open, and sometimes we tend to purchase stuff due to it being cheap and in our budgets. I have an ATI card, feel free to hate me, but when I bought it, I was a gamer on Windows, and plus you can’t deny that ATI&gt;NVidia when it comes to GPUs.

So in the mean time, while there are only a hand full of open hardware vendors, there are some people who need the closed source/proprietary drivers, especially for wifi (which my Orinoco card doesn’t work either with FC6 OOTB). I am open to switching to everything free, just as soon as someone sends me money to do so.

This whole free software, opensource software, linux distro this and that is starting to sound a lot like politics, and if anyone watches TV, we see how that goes ;)

Good write up Steve!

]]> By: Rahul Sundaram http://www.sharms.org/blog/2006/11/fedora-core-6/comment-page-1/#comment-67 Rahul Sundaram Thu, 09 Nov 2006 03:08:01 +0000 http://www.sharms.org/blog/?p=31#comment-67 * Wireless - In Fedora, the policy is to try and stay close to upstream on most packages including the kernel and there is very strong support for Free software. If the card isnt supported in the upstream kernel or requires proprietary drivers or firmware without clean redistribution rights, Fedora wont support it out of the box. You can possibly look at third party repositories for that. Fedora Core 6 includes the ability to use Fedora Extras or custom repositories during installation so this is currently very simple. It can be even automated completely using kickstart. * Graphics: Red Hat spearheaded the AIGLX development and it has merged into Xorg 7.1 that is included in Fedora Core 6. XGL is additional unnecessary overhead of a separate server and widely considered as a legacy hack. * Resolution: This is potentially due to the switchover from Bitstream to Dejavu which appears to have exposed a fontconfig bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=210491 * Bootup: Fedora has been using the quiet option and rhgb graphical bootup to hide kernel text by default in recent releases. See /etc/grub.conf if you want to disable that. * Package Management: While Apt along with Synaptic and Smart is available in Fedora Extras it is not the default for various reasons described in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tools/Apt Hope that explains a few things. * Wireless – In Fedora, the policy is to try and stay close to upstream on most packages including the kernel and there is very strong support for Free software. If the card isnt supported in the upstream kernel or requires proprietary drivers or firmware without clean redistribution rights, Fedora wont support it out of the box. You can possibly look at third party repositories for that. Fedora Core 6 includes the ability to use Fedora Extras or custom repositories during installation so this is currently very simple. It can be even automated completely using kickstart.

* Graphics: Red Hat spearheaded the AIGLX development and it has merged into Xorg 7.1 that is included in Fedora Core 6. XGL is additional unnecessary overhead of a separate server and widely considered as a legacy hack.

* Resolution: This is potentially due to the switchover from Bitstream to Dejavu which appears to have exposed a fontconfig bug.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=210491

* Bootup: Fedora has been using the quiet option and rhgb graphical bootup to hide kernel text by default in recent releases. See /etc/grub.conf if you want to disable that.

* Package Management: While Apt along with Synaptic and Smart is available in Fedora Extras it is not the default for various reasons described in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tools/Apt

Hope that explains a few things.

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