DaveJ writes in his blog “I stand corrected. It does however still ship freedom impacting things like the binary ipw3945 daemon.” Sorry to have to bring you back to reality, but this is just getting out of hand.
Freedom != Not using hardware
If your idea of freedom is sitting there with no network connection because you have no drivers for it, then I am simply astounded. Not everyone has the resources to go out and buy a laptop that has all free parts.
Redhat and friends – You are simply hypocrites. Remember OLPC that you guys are championing? Yes, their Marvell wireless card has proprietary drivers. Get off your horse.
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#1 by Jay on November 9, 2006 - 11:24 pm
How do we strike the balance between working hardware and defeating our purpose of a free platform? Will more hardware go the way of the Intel wireless cards and require binary blobs in order to operate?
Users need to be able to use their computers. Period. Is it clear how much freedom can be given up to reach this end?
I haven’t a clue.
#2 by mindwarp on November 9, 2006 - 11:34 pm
This is just a response to every Redhat guy who is posting things like “Oh we don’t include firmware because it’s not free”.
For me it is just like, oh great, ok, its not free, so now I just can’t use my computer to get on the internet. How does that help anyone besides me not getting internet?
#3 by Rogan Dawes on November 10, 2006 - 12:14 am
Slow down a second.
DaveJ is complaining about a binary daemon that is not supported on platforms other than those that Intel chooses to compile it for.
That is a big difference to the OLPC which DOES have free drivers, but currently is using a non-free binary firmware. Regardless of the platform that someone connects that Marvel wireless chipset to, the free wireless drivers will be able to be modified to drive it, and upload that non-free firmware. Much like most of the other wireless cards on the planet.
Keep in mind, though, that OLPC is trying to get someone to write an entirely free firmware for the Marvel part AS WELL. That will be a BIG step forward, as likely the first free firmware available for a wireless card. (Ignoring the Prism54 team’s FreeMAC reverse engineering efforts, which are not very far along at this stage)
#4 by sko on November 10, 2006 - 12:18 am
THANK YOU!!!
You are completely right. I can’t stand reading the posts that Ubuntu is evil since they ship binary drivers.
Ubuntu’s philosophy is the right one. Ship proprietary drivers and related software if no free one is able to do the same job. The most important thing is making sure users CAN use free software before you go all about making sure everything is free software.
How far to go? As long as its possible for it to be replaced by free software, I think its fine.
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#5 by Paul on November 10, 2006 - 12:56 am
I agree with Ubuntu’s decision to ship proprietary drivers if there is no alternative.
I agree with Ubuntu’s decision to default to free drivers but still accomodate non-free ones in a way that makes things relatively simple for the user (such as with the Nvidia driver).
In short I don’t really see “preventing”
users from doing something as a valid tool for advancing software freedom. (“Preventing” may not be exactly the right word but in effect it is that for many users).
However I wonder if something more cannot be done to help promote hardware that is supported (or supportable) in an open source fashion. A way of helping users make the right choice prior to spending their money and locking themselves in for that purchase cycle.
It may even be something that could be done cross-distro. Several distros could get together and create some sort of mark like the Windows logo testing and award it to specific pieces of hardware and maybe assembled systems as appropriate.
#6 by Matthew Garrett on November 10, 2006 - 3:13 am
What? The Marvell driver isn’t closed – the entire source is available. The source for the firmware isn’t, but that’s an entirely separate issue. The ipw3945 daemon runs on the host processor, not the card. That’s why it’s in l-r-m, not anything in main.
#7 by Tomm on November 10, 2006 - 1:21 pm
VERY good idea, with the cross-distro Windows-like logo !!
I know a lot of people that have not using linux right now, but are thinking about it. And I am also sure, that when buying a laptop this would be a great plus, when they make the decision which one to choose.
This would be a huge step forward !
That is kind of stuff that is important, and all linux-distro people should and could agree and then make it happen !